Interviews

Cho Chatting

miri: So, you guys have watched the show for quite a while, right? I read in some interviews that it just took a few seasons for you to be able to apply together.

Erwin: We just made that whole thing up so that it would seem like we were real fans.

miri: So that it wouldn't seem like you were "recruited," huh?

Godwin: Of course. No, no. We've been watching for years.

miri: When did you get hooked? What season or what hooked you in?

Erwin: The Family Edition rocked, baby!
Ready to race
Ready to race
Godwin: No, no. I did a lot of travel around the world, so I don't remember what season it was, but I just began watching. I saw a lot of the same brothels I'd gone to.

Erwin: They're recording.

Godwin: I saw a lot of the same locations that I had traveled to on my own and I thought - Hey! What a great opportunity to take advantage of all of my previous experiences.

Tribefan: You'd watch a place and go, "Oh, I saw that! I was there! I remember that!"

miri: So, was there any team that you really liked in the earlier seasons?

Erwin: I would say, like many other people, Chip and Kim - are at least one of my favorite teams. The Hippies and the Glamazons for the brief period they were on. Also, as an extra - I'm pretty certain they're not in All-Stars, but one of my favorites were the wrestlers.

Tribefan: Bolo and Lori?

Erwin: I forget what her name was, but Bolo just captured my heart.

miri: They were definitely characters. So, we know you've kind of become friends with at least one of the Glamazons after the Race. We've seen the pictures that prove it.

Erwin: Uh oh.

Tribefan: There is photographic proof.

Erwin: All I can say is that with the advent of digital images and Photoshop, it's amazing what people can create.

Tribefan: Well, Joni is quite creative, so....We enjoyed her efforts very much.

Erwin: That photo? You might want to destroy those.

Tribefan: Had you applied for the show before? Or was this the first time you actually applied to be on it and you were picked the first time?

Godwin: We never applied.

Tribefan: You never applied?

Godwin: No, I had some pictures of the producers at one of the local gentlemen's clubs.

Tribefan: Well, that's good to know because people always want some good advice on the best way to get chosen.

Godwin: No, we went to an open casting.

Tribefan: Oh, okay.

Godwin: That was the first time we'd ever applied.

miri: We had been hoping, for all ten seasons, that the cast would be a little bit more diverse than it had been. It still surprises me that it took ten seasons to get an Asian-American team. Does that surprise you at all? Did you feel any pressure being the first Asian-American team on the race?

Godwin: Well....when you look as good as us, it's kind of easy.

miri: I know that's kind of a silly question because people are people, but they really made a big deal about the diversity when they were promoting this cast. That was just one of the reasons why I wanted to ask that.

Erwin: I think we were just pleasantly surprised that this cast was as colorful as it was in every sense of the word.

miri: Exactly. I think we were a little sad that a lot of the diversity went out early! It would have been fun to watch that throughout the whole race.

Godwin: That's something I spoke with Mary about, and it's really sad because if anybody got to meet, for instance, Bilal and Sa'eed, those guys are just the biggest teddy bears. And Vipul and Arti, you know. People remember the geeks and the love that they showed for one another but Vipul and Arti had that to an exponential degree. I think that it would have been nice if they were there long enough just to show that to the world.

miri: Right. Especially because in those first couple of legs, it's just usually luck. I always feel bad for the teams that go out first because often you can't point to much that they did wrong - it's just the luck of the draw.

Tribefan: And poor Bilal and Sa'eed. That had never happened before. They don't even make it through the first leg. I'm in Cleveland, so I was quite sad to see the local team go out so quickly.

miri: How was that for you to make it through that first leg? Did that help you to kind of settle in a little bit or do you ever really settle in?
You don't want to be the first. So I think after that, everybody sort of settled in, but the way Bilal and Sa'eed left, sort of in mid-leg, made it a little….I guess it just made it a little more dramatic.
Erwin: You don't want to be the first. So I think after that, everybody sort of settled in, but the way Bilal and Sa'eed left, sort of in mid-leg, made it a little....I guess it just made it a little more dramatic.

Godwin: And we knew that Bilal and Sa'eed were ahead of us by forty-five minutes, so for us - you know, they didn't show Erwin and I sitting in the back of a cab and then the questions being asked, like, "Where do you think you are?" We sat there thinking that it was a non-elimination. I mean, we were sort of lackadaisical. It was like - "Oh, no - we're gonna pick it up tomorrow, we're gonna be fine!" And we had no idea that a couple of wrong turns in a cab and it spelled doom.

miri: Right. Yeah, you were just that close from being that first team out, right?

Erwin: Yeah, and Bilal and Sa'eed only pulled up a minute behind us when we got....

miri: So it was as close as it looked like on TV? Because sometimes they kind of fudge that a little bit.

Erwin: Yeah, part of it's editing, but in that case, it really wasn't. We were just a minute ahead of them.

Tribefan: You really made it by the skin of your teeth. Going into the race, did you make any decisions ahead of time on how to divide the tasks based on individual strengths and weaknesses?

Godwin: I told my brother that any of the events where you have to dress like a woman? I thought I'd take those because people might get confused with my brother's long hair.

Tribefan: That's the missing road block.

miri: You know what's funny is....there were some spoiler pictures out on the net. And there was one of Erwin from behind, and people actually thought it was a girl. Sorry, Erwin!

Erwin: Yeah, for a while I was told that I was an Asian woman and also a Native American woman. I had to keep my mouth shut while all those.....

Tribefan: ....vicious rumors circulated.

Erwin: Yeah.

Godwin: In all seriousness, we did discuss sort of the tasks and the way we were gonna split them. I mean, it's hard....you can't always tell what the tasks are going to be. But in terms of any eating challenges, my brother said he would take those. Any of the challenges that required a little more fear or strength, I was gonna take.

miri: Okay. You all couldn't divide up the height challenges. You both have a little bit of an issue with heights, right?

Godwin: Yeah, we both have an issue with height. In that instance, you're both fucked.

miri: Yeah. And that was right from the first leg.

Erwin: One of the first tasks was to climb the Great Wall of China. That wasn't so much height as just effort.

Godwin: And skill.

Erwin: Yeah, and a little more skill. The first height challenge we really faced was in Vietnam where Godwin had to use the ascender and then rappel down.

miri: Oh, yeah. And then, of course, you all had what I think is the ultimate mind-screwing height thing, which is that face-first angel dive thing at the end. How much more does that play with your mind? That you're going down face first instead of like the rappel that you did in Vietnam?

Godwin: Well, I could say something really inappropriate about going face first, but instead I will say that, in Vietnam, for me, it wasn't a problem using the ascender and rappeling. I was slightly fearful on the rappeling part initially, but in Helsinki, doing that face-first was almost impossible for me.

miri: Yeah. I just can't imagine....because you can't ignore that you're up that far off the ground.

Godwin: No, it's terrifying. Every part of your body is saying, "No, I'm not going down that wall." And to add to everything, there are a couple of details that a lot of people don't know. One is that they probably don't notice that we're wearing socks. And when you wear socks, it's very slippery against that wall, so you really don't have a good grip.

miri: Yeah, people were wondering, do they make you put those on or something?

Godwin: Yeah. Some of us had filthy feet.

Tribefan: Get your dirty feet off my building!
...once they lean you over the wall? You hear this nasty click from your safety equipment and then you get a jolt. And that's not the most reassuring sound or feeling right when you're 240 feet up in the air.
Godwin: Yeah, it was to protect the wall. And the second thing is that, once they lean you over the wall? You hear this nasty click from your safety equipment and then you get a jolt. And that's not the most reassuring sound or feeling right when you're 240 feet up in the air.

Tribefan: Yeah, I think that's the first time the heart stops.

Godwin: Then, when we went down the wall where James and Tyler had already gone there was a liquid substance on the wall that, you know, was very slippery.

miri: Okay. I didn't mean to fast-forward there kind of towards the end of things, but you kind of seemed to have a running thread about the heights. It was kind of part of your story line a little bit on the show, so I just kind of covered all that at once. Now, you guys formed this alliance with the backpack team, which later became the six-pack team. Was it on a long bus or a train ride at the beginning?

Erwin: That was on a long bus ride from China to Mongolia.

miri: Okay. Was that just with all of the teams that happened to be on the same bus with you then?

Erwin: Yes. There were two buses. We were on the second bus.

Godwin: It was on the bus ride from the Great Wall to the train station that was going to take us to Mongolia.

miri: This alliance thing kind of defined you for the rest of the season as far as what we were seeing on TV. Do you think that that alliance would have been as strong if there were different teams on that bus ride with you or was it the combination of the length of time you had and the people you were with?

Godwin: I think that the closest relationships, which were with Kentucky and Bama, were forged on the train ride. We formed the relationship with the backpack on the bus ride, but after the bus ride, when we spent the hours in the train, we got to talk to them and share information. That's where we sort of began the friendship.

Tribefan: Now that you've watched, obviously you've seen other seasons of the show and you're aware that there never really was a big alliance that actually stayed together and worked together as long as your group did. Did you really think that that this would be an effective way to approach the race?

Erwin: We had a couple of thoughts. One was that, even going into the race, we wanted to do things differently. We didn't want to just run the race as everybody else had run it with different variations. So, for us, we know that a lot of things can happen on the race. There's a lot of luck involved. A lot of things that can happen that are outside of your control. What is in your control is to see if you can do something different. That's what we wanted to do.

Godwin: Personally, I just like hanging around with David and Mary. And Lyn and Karlyn. So, race aside, it was just fun to do things with them. So, in large part, when people would say, "Well, why are you waiting? Why are you waiting?" For me it was easy to wait because they were people that I just enjoyed the adventure with.

miri: There's also, I think, a certain sense of safety in numbers with that. I mean, it's kind of scary because if you're the last teams, it could be your friends that are gonna be eliminated. At the same time, there's a better chance that you're not gonna be the last team on the mat that time. Did that come into your thought processes at all?

Erwin: I think for the most part, we focused on trying to get everybody who was in the alliance as far as possible. It wasn't that we thought there was safety in a herd. We were just trying to make sure that we fulfilled our promise to help each other until the final three.

Tribefan: If you had made it to the final three, all three teams, what would have happened then? Would you have been able to just all-out race against them? You know, not share any information and just have your eyes on the prize?

Godwin: Well, we talked about different scenarios and one that we always brought up was off-beat. It was all three teams stepping onto the mat at the end together.

miri: I wonder if they would have allowed you to do that.

Godwin: Well, you know, it was one of those things that just, in sort of the best scenario, would have happened. In reality, I think we all sort of decided. We said that if we were the final three, friendships aside, we'd all race to the end and no feelings would be hurt.

miri: Right. It's also got to be hard though, because you have become such good friends.

Tribefan: Was it a surprise to you when you were watching and you saw Bama saying things like, "Why are they waiting for us? We wouldn't have waited for them." They seemed surprised that you would do that and they kind of made it clear that they would not do the same in the same circumstances. Was that surprising to you?

Erwin: Yeah. That episode, I'll speak for myself, was very surprising to us. At any moment, they could have said to us, "You know what? Why are you guys waiting for us? You guys should go ahead." And, in that episode, that wasn't the first time we'd waited for them. In Mauritius, we waited for them as well. Not just us, but Kentucky as well. So, it wasn't a surprise that we waited for them. The whole point of it was that, during the race, one of the reasons many alliances didn't work for very long was that you weren't ever close enough to the other teams to make the alliance work. Except during those bunching up periods. So, how are you supposed to help another team if they're an hour behind you? It just doesn't work. So, we were trying to help everyone and keep everybody together but move quickly as a group.

miri: So, did that upset you when you heard them saying that? Were you surprised that they didn't just tell you - "Oh, hey, go ahead, guys."

Erwin: Uh, I can say that, watching it in hindsight, it was very difficult.
And what they didn't show was that, there was a part in the Ukraine when Bama just takes off and that's when I use a certain French word that they bleeped. In that instance, my heart just sank because I knew what was happening.
Godwin: And what they didn't show was that, there was a part in the Ukraine when Bama just takes off and that's when I use a certain French word that they bleeped. In that instance, my heart just sank because I knew what was happening. It was after we helped them from the tanks. I mean, they didn't have a map to get from the tanks to the city of Kiev. After we'd helped them get back into the city, you know, for them to just take off, I think that was very, very disappointing for me.

miri: It's like they were shifting into that final three mode a little earlier than perhaps you had thought was going to happen.

Godwin: I think they did it but we gave them the benefit of the doubt. Especially myself. I think I try to think the best of people. Maybe that may have clouded my judgment.

miri: But do you think that they were being....I mean, in a competition like this, do you think that they were being bad? You were saying that you think the best of people. Do they think they were being "bad people" or not being their best by looking out for themselves in the competition?

Erwin: No, we don't think that any of the teams or how they competed was bad. If you compete a certain way, that's fine with us. Just be up-front with us about it. We talked to Kentucky and Alabama in places like Mongolia. We had what we thought were real discussions, not just sort of superficial strategy of the race. We were saying, "We are gonna do this differently and we want to show a very different side of people." Even during competition. I think that's what sort of was most disappointing to us. Sure, it's a race. Race the race you want to race. But in those times when the camera is off and we're having these discussions, it's really sort of a person-to-person thing and it's a person-to-person promise. At that point, that's what made it tough for us.

miri: I mean, if this is an alliance for convenience, that's fine, but just tell us. Is that kind of what you're getting at? You have to do what works best for you and you accept that that's not what's the best for someone else. Is that correct?

After the race, because of the interviews that we were reading, a lot of fans were getting a little upset, because it sounded like you guys were trying to say that you were better than other people with how you approached the race.

Godwin: I think that there were instances that I was upset about. One was, if you watch the show, we never bad-mouth anyone. Yet, people bad-mouthed us for no apparent reason other than for who we were. They really didn't know much about us, and yet they were making certain criticisms. And that, I felt, was inappropriate.

miri: Poor sportsmanship. Yes. And it felt like, maybe, not respecting competitors as people.

Erwin: You know, I was like, "Why are you personally attacking me? I've done nothing to you.

miri: Right. Okay!

Godwin: To answer your question about our strategy, we were never implying that there's only one way to run the race. Run it however you want to run it, there's all sorts of different ways you can do it. But, for us, the race became more than strategy. It became about real personal relationships. So, how we felt about Kentucky and Bama was not just because we thought there was a huge advantage to running with them. It was truly about friendship.

miri: And it was about this experience you were having together.

Godwin: Absolutely.

miri: I have always thought that the race was a difficult combination of that experience and the competition. And that that's the most difficult thing to balance. Some teams tend to, it looks like they go more towards the competition side, and perhaps, unhealthily toward the competition side. Some teams may go a little bit towards the experience side in an unhealthy way. So, I can see where that's a very difficult thing to balance.
We could compete, we would compete hard, but we also wanted to enjoy what we had. We didn't want it all just to be lost in the blink of an eye simply because we were trying to get from point A to point B.
Godwin: I just want to make one point and then I'll speak to your question. The point I want to make is - I don't think anyone is better than anyone else. I want to make that explicitly clear. I'm not saying that anybody was better. I can say that certain teams were more skillful than others in certain respects. But being better people? I think everyone's the same. In terms of the people and how they want to compete, I think for my brother and I, we wanted to enjoy the experience. We could compete, we would compete hard, but we also wanted to enjoy what we had. We didn't want it all just to be lost in the blink of an eye simply because we were trying to get from point A to point B.

miri: I mean, if you get eliminated and you haven't enjoyed the race or you haven't taken that time to give a little respect like you did at the Hanoi Hilton, or do the things that you felt you needed to do, what was the point of going on the race? Is that a little bit of it?

Godwin: Yeah.

Tribefan: I think part of the problem is that some of those post-race interviews are so brief. Like, you're only on The Early Show for a minute. And I think, perhaps, people get the wrong impression from what you're trying to say.

Godwin: People are entitled to their opinions, but if people look at the race and they see the friendships that we had and the way that we were? We never judged anyone. We really liked the different people. To be honest, Mary and David are exceptional people. Bilal and Sa'eed, Vipul and Arti, The cheerleaders, Tom and Terry. You know, a lot of people didn't like Peter and Sarah but we liked everyone. There are certain people that were considered a threat because they would complete tasks very rapidly. Part of the experience is the relationships that you have with the different competitors. And there's sort of a healthy sort of competition there 'cause I know there are times when I'd see the models or Peter and Sarah ahead and that would frustrate me.

miri: But that doesn't mean that you don't like them as people. I think some people get so caught up in competition sometimes that they tend to get personal in how the competition makes them feel about the other human beings.

Godwin: No, I didn't think of people in those terms. The only thing I disliked was when people attacked me personally. They said, "Hey, these guys are strong competitors and we want them out." I can accept that! But when you personally attack me? I don't think that's fair.

miri: Right. Okay, I think we have covered that about as many ways as we can. Now, this grand experience you had....what was your favorite destination you went to that either you had the most fun at or you got to do the most interesting stuff at?

Erwin: I would name two countries and one experience. The two countries for me were Vietnam and Mongolia. They're spectacularly beautiful and in very different ways. Mongolia, just for its natural beauty and for the openness of the people. I can't tell you how many times we were stuck and got help from the locals in a relatively desolate place. I think that says a lot about how people view each other. The scenery was just breathtaking in that national park. And Vietnam because, again, it goes back to the people. How we felt about people helping us and the energy of the cities and then the natural beauty of places like Ha Long Bay. Both are places that I'd go back to visit again. And then in terms of experience, the most terrifying one was also the most rewarding. Going down the wall in Finland is definitely going to be something that I'm going to remember for the rest of my life.

miri: Yeah, I could see that!

Tribefan: Do you still wake up in a cold sweat when you think about it?

Godwin: I think that those two, the two countries that Erwin mentioned are two countries that I enjoyed as well. But in terms of the experience, after everything wrapped up and some time has passed, I realized that the two experiences that really stand out for me are the beginning and the end. And I'm talking about the end when we were eliminated because I see how our relationship was running off the start and how we finished on the mat. I think that those are the times that I'm going to appreciate because I see how our relationship has evolved. I'm happy that it did so in a positive way.

Tribefan: So to spend that time together in experiencing the race brought you closer together?

miri: Because I read in some interviews that you had either, I think, Godwin? You had some tough times or something that Erwin helped you through? Am I remembering that correctly? And that this helped to solidify some of that?

Godwin: There was the one instance that goes back to Helsinki. What people didn't see was that I had walked up to the ledge at least three times. On all three of those occasions, I couldn't take that leap of faith to walk off the edge. And I tried, you know. I basically told my brother, "Hey, let's just take the penalty here because I can't do this." Generally, my brother's the one that has sort of the height and fears. But in that instance, he stepped up and he said, "Hey, let me try it. If we can't, then so be it." But he was able to do it, and after he did it that's when, you know, it sort of showed me that I could do it.

miri: Yeah, it helped you get over that by taking that first step off of there, which I can not imagine. What was your least favorite destination or task?

Godwin: I can say that the least....there are two experiences. One is Madagascar. That's when I knew that David and Mary were being eliminated. That just was a very unpleasant feeling. That sort of translated and carried over into Finland. And just being dirty. I don't like being dirty. And having to trog through the bogs. To do so without my friends was very difficult.

miri: Yeah. I could see how it would really dampen your spirits a bit.

Tribefan: Were there any things that happened on the race that they didn't show on TV that you wish they had shown?

Godwin: I wish they'd shown more of our sense of humor. People that know us know that I don't take a lot of things too seriously. You've just got to enjoy life and enjoy life's mishaps. I try to take everything with a smile as best as I can and they didn't really show that.
All good things must come to an end.
All good things must come to an end.
miri: Although in the very first episode, you got into a little bit of trouble with that sense of humor with the water pistols.

Godwin: No, we had something actually before that, but that was never shown. We got into trouble with that early on, so we pretty much got into trouble from the start of the gate. There were a lot of other practical jokes that they never showed.

miri: How did the other racers react? Some people looked kind of shocked. Some people looked a little ticked off at the water pistols! Was it just your way to try and break the ice with them?


Erwin: Yeah. We just wanted to break the ice a little bit. And, again, it goes back to everybody being sort of on edge that first day. We were just trying to break the ice a little bit but we picked the wrong location to do it in.

miri: Yeah.

Tribefan: The airport. Yeah.

Godwin: The problem was that at the start of the race it was raining, and that's where we were initially going to do it. So it actually just got postponed.

Tribefan: Oh, yeah. Water pistols in the rain kind of lose their effect.

miri: Anyway, were there any particularly memorable moments at a pit stop or anything?

Erwin: There are a couple of memorable pit stops. One is in Mongolia. It was getting to be night and we could see the cheerleaders firing off their flaming arrows. And I just want to say that they would have been there all night doing it if it was, you know....

miri: They weren't ready to quit?

Erwin: Yeah. I don't want anyone to think that the cheerleaders were quitters. Let me just put it that way. They were there 'til the bitter end. And that was one of those memorable moments where all the racers came together and said how impressed we were. And on the more lighthearted side at that same pit stop, we played a little joke on the Beauty Queens. We put some fake roaches in their shoes. You should have heard the screams.

Godwin: You can quote me on this: "What happens at the pit stop, stays at the pit stop." I consider myself a gentleman and a gentleman does not kiss and tell.

miri: Ah, okay.

Tribefan: So, clearly, fake roaches are essential race equipment that you brought with you. Was there anything else you brought along that absolutely proved itself invaluable?

Erwin: Yeah. We recommend fake cell phones. That's highly effective in sabotaging yourself.

Tribefan: We'll keep that in mind.

Godwin: To tell you the truth, let's just say that there's some editing there. We actually got hold of a real cell phone. We were calling travel agencies but they weren't open. So, I don't....In Peter's case, when he got a hold of a cell phone, I forgot....

Erwin: He just called later in the day.

Godwin: Yeah. Yeah, he might have called later. That's probably why he managed to get something when we didn't.

miri: Yeah, and it's got to be hard to take ribbing for something like that, too. When you know that it is a little bit of editing. Is it hard sometimes dealing with the commentary you see on-line or do you not pay any attention to that?

Godwin: Well, it's actually amusing because they played it up like it backfired on us, but that wasn't really what backfired. In that instance, yes, he did get the tickets. But we had better tickets than he had. What happened was that my brother and I said that we weren't going to lie to people if they asked us direct questions. We didn't want to do that. So, we told Peter our flight. He decided that he was going to keep his flight. This is when we were going to India. What happened was that he saw that they changed flights to get a better flight. That's when Peter and Sarah came in first in India. It was because they knew that we were friends with Bama and Kentucky, and we helped them to get on the earlier flight, when they had originally been on Peter's flight. So, if anybody wants to talk about anything backfiring, it's really just, you know, honesty is really not going to be your best policy in this kind of competition but we wanted to stay as honest as we could.

Erwin: To answer your question about criticism that we see on the web? They say a lot worse about Peter.

Tribefan: It depends on which board you go to.
And whatever they might throw at the Cho brothers? Nothing compared to what they've thrown at Peter.
Erwin: And whatever they might throw at the Cho brothers? Nothing compared to what they've thrown at Peter.

Tribefan: That is true!

miri: Yeah, it helps when you're not the über-villain for the season. It helps to kind of put things into perspective a little bit.

Godwin: Yeah. We were wondering who the most-hated man was going to be.

Tribefan: I don't know that people hated you.

miri: I think people got a little frustrated at times.

 

Tribefan: Yeah. Mostly what we were seeing was, you know, don't they even want to race? Don't they want to win? Obviously, you were in it for the experience. They didn't get the sense that you had the killer instinct that maybe sometimes you need to get far in the race.

miri: And of course a lot of couch potato people watching the race - we always know how to do it better than any of the contestants, so....

Erwin: Yeah. We'd be happy to race again.

Godwin: And the other thing - people who tell their kids that it's not about winning, it's how you play? For us, how we were going to play was, we were going to enjoy ourselves. We were going to enjoy the experience. If you go all out and you don't enjoy the experience and you don't win, what are you left with?

Tribefan: Yeah, nothing. You don't have a million dollars and you didn't have a very good time.

Godwin: Yeah, and some of these other teams, they pursued that in the past and they got divorce papers from their partners. So, it wasn't something that....we didn't want it to be that way.

Tribefan: So you basically walk away from the race feeling good about your experience and the people you met and what you got out of it.

miri: No matter what your placement was, because you were true to what you wanted to do.

Erwin: Yeah, but I wanted to clarify that we did compete. There are people who say, "Oh well, you know, they didn't have that killer instinct." But our killer instinct was to get as many people in our alliance as far as possible. And I would say that we....I think it says something that one of our alliance made it to the final three.

miri: Oh, definitely! There's a difference between people who love to compete and people who have to win in order to love competition. There's a big difference in those two mind sets. Just because you're not foaming at the mouth and killing everyone in your wake, doesn't mean you aren't competing.

Erwin: Yeah. It's a matter of degree, you know? There are some people willing to push their grandmother off the bridge to make sure they win. And there are people....

Tribefan: ....who go crazy when they don't come in first every leg.

miri: Yeah, which I've never understood. Except that you do get some cool prizes. Speaking of kind of cool prizes - David and Mary really cleaned up when they were on The View with a lot of prizes. They said that they wanted to take you guys on one of he cruises they were offered. Are you going to get to do that with them?

Erwin: Yes, but actually, well yeah, that was one of the things that they offered on The View, and David and Mary kindly asked if we could go. We're going to go join them and have a great time on that cruise.

miri: Oh, that's cool! Do you know when that's going to be yet or has that not been worked out?

Erwin: I believe it's sometime in February.

miri: Oh! So, that's not too far away. Well, cool!

Tribefan: That'll be fun. What has life been like for you guys post-race? Are you recognized on the street? Do you have a little bit of celebrity going on?

Erwin: Um, a little bit. I mean, there are people who come up and actually, you may have heard from a lot of people about - those people who were wondering about our killer instinct. In terms of in person? Everybody who has come up to us has really thanked us for the way we ran the race and felt that it was a different race than any other race that they had watched. And they really appreciated being able to sit down with their family and watch and root for us. So that was very....that's been great.

Tribefan: That must be very gratifying.

Erwin: And especially, you know, some of our biggest fans are kids. We really like that when kids come up to us and say that they're fans. I would say, the last quick thing is that we get recognized at Costco a lot.

Tribefan: I wonder why!

Erwin: A big gathering ground for Amazing Race fans.

Tribefan: Apparently!

Tribefan: I think the problem with what you'll see on-line is those are the really rabid fans who watch everything and over-analyze everything to death. So, I think that's probably why you'll see the greater criticism. Whereas the average person on the street who just watches the show and enjoys it, can appreciate that you were having a good time and that you were nice guys. I think it's the rabid fans, those of us who hang out on-line, who might see things differently.

miri: And not everyone who hung out on-line disliked the way you raced, so....

Tribefan: Oh, absolutely not, no.
What I was going to say is - just like everything in life, there are two perspectives. What you're seeing is only one. And the other one is, you know, the editing room.
Godwin: What I was going to say is - just like everything in life, there are two perspectives. What you're seeing is only one. And the other one is, you know, the editing room. And there are a lot of things that you don't get to see. And, again, for instance, in any argument, there are two sides to every story. If you only get to see one, how can you really make any sense of it?

miri: Exactly. You know, it's really funny because earlier you were talking about some of the things people were saying about Peter and that was one of the things someone pointed out. We didn't get to see any interviews with Peter. We were only seeing interviews with Sarah. And I bet that's just one of thousands of situations where we're only seeing one side of things.

Tribefan: That's the story they chose to tell.

miri: And we also realize that, you know, they're only showing you a couple of minutes out of your day. We only get to see a little bit of you. When we get to see a caricature we're only getting to see the bit of you that the story editors feel will tell their story.

Godwin: Absolutely. And I want to say this, that I consider Peter family. I'd do anything for the guy. He is one of the kindest, most generous individuals. That part doesn't get shown. You know, what happened was, he was in a time of his life where he'd been through some things prior to the race. That just carried on and, unfortunately, that's what was shown. But anybody who gets to know him, you know, he's just an absolutely big-hearted person.

miri: That's always so good to hear because I think sometimes, and we're the first to tell you, the example we always give out is, the first season, we hated Team Guido. I don't know if you've watched the first season, But....

Erwin: Yeah.

miri: ....they were the villains that season. And we hated them. We have met Bill and Joe. They're the nicest guys.

Tribefan: Yeah, we adore them now. I mean, I can't even think of them as villains.

miri: But it's so funny because I still go back and when I watch some of the first season's episodes, I still hate them! And that doesn't make any sense to me. That's how powerful the editing is. And that's how powerful the stories they tell are. You'll find that the long-time fans understand that. They really do.

Erwin: Yeah. And I'd just like to add one more thing about Peter. We'd like to start an on-line campaign to get him on The Bachelor.

Tribefan: Get the petition started!

Godwin: I wanted to be the first to say that, in terms of editing, I think I got a very good edit and I'm a very imperfect individual, make lots of mistakes, and I'm far from - I wouldn't say far from what was shown - but there are a lot of things that people don't see, and I'll be the first to admit - I'm not a perfect person.

miri: Yeah. No one is.

Tribefan: But overall you were pleased with your edit? You felt it was fairly accurate?

Godwin: I wish they had shown the times that I got naked because that was my goal, to get naked on national television.

Tribefan: And we thank you for that.

miri: I think that goes back to the pictures we've gotten from Joni. So, speaking of fun pictures - how did you guys enjoy the finale party you went to? Was that a lot of fun?

Erwin: Yeah! It was great to meet the fans. We actually ended up going to two parties. One was hosted by Sarah and Peter. The other one was hosted by Chip and Kim and the Orange County crew. It was a good time, and it was nice to meet the fans, and I really appreciated their support.

miri: 'Cause we missed you at the New York party. I didn't know if you knew that there was a party in New York, as well but we did miss you guys there.

Erwin: Yeah. Well, there were two things. One is that we didn't get the information about that one. No one really contacted us about the New York party. And secondly, it was going to be much more expensive.

Tribefan: Oh, yeah. The problem with that one in December is that it is outrageously expensive even just to go there.

Erwin: Yeah. And for those of us that didn't win the million....

miri: And the one on the West Coast is right in your back yard, essentially, so.... I think Joni was filling a lot of requests from the fans in New York with a few of the pictures that we got.

Tribefan: Yeah, there were requests that came from New York that she had to take care of for us.

miri: Well, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. We've taken up a lot of your time here, so I guess we'll kind of wrap this up a little bit. You already said that you're ready to race again. Was this, so far, the experience of your lifetime?

Godwin: For me, I think, the experience of my life is my life. I'm just enjoying the fact that I have so many blessings and I thank God for that. The only thing I'd like to throw in is if you can plug our company, we'd love you for it.

miri: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. That's A Little Karma, right?

Godwin: Yeah.

miri: And your website is alittlekarma.com. I've been there and I looked at it. Can you explain it a little bit more? It looks like you have some artwork and some items there for sale, and then some of the profit goes to good acts or good works?

Godwin: Yes. We originally designed the site around funding sort of random acts of kindness, good acts, by selling artwork and other sorts of arts and crafts made by local small producers and artists.

miri: I think what I read on there was the idea that charity doesn't have to be big. It can be small, and you are trying to facilitate reaching out in little ways. Is that kind of the idea?

Godwin: The mission is specifically to inspire people to be good to others for no other reason than the fact that it feels good to do so.

miri: Again, thank you so much for your time!

Tribefan: Thank you very much! The night is still young in California, so you need to go out and have a good time.
I just want to thank Tom and Terry, Peter, Mary and David, Bilal, and Vipul and Arti. I mean, they've just been excessively good people.
Godwin: Yeah, can I just add one thing, if you add anything in there? I just want to thank Tom and Terry, Peter, Mary and David, Bilal, and Vipul and Arti. I mean, they've just been excessively good people. And, you know, we speak to them. They send us Christmas cards. We talk to each other frequently, and it's great to have those friendships.

Tribefan: Obviously, you've made friends for life.

Erwin: Yeah. And I would just like to thank the fans. They're the ones that allow the racers the opportunity to actually race. So, I just wanted to thank everybody who's contributed to that opportunity.

Tribefan: Thank you.

Erwin: Goodnight, and I hope you enjoy your weekend.