The Sound of Snark

Gerard and Ken enjoy TARcon5. <span class="small">(Photo by Tribefan)</span>
Gerard and Ken enjoy TARcon5. (Photo by Tribefan)
As we head into part two of our interview with TAR3's Ken and Gerard, the hills are alive with the sound of snark. (Did you miss part one? It's right over here.)

Okay. So you guys seemed to switch Detours quite often in the Race, so much so that, whenever anyone does it now, we compare them to you. I don’t know if it was just because you were the first guys to do it, but—

Gerard: Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

—or if you just did it with a lot of flair. I’m not quite sure which it is.

Gerard: Well, it really always came down to strategy. I know a lot of people looked at it and said, “What are you doing? No, don’t switch tasks!” But we only switched tasks when we thought it made sense to switch tasks and if we thought we would come out in a better place.

Ken: And we don’t get as much information as the audience gets about how far things are. I mean, we don’t get that information. So what you’re reading is two different things than what’s happening. So continue, Gerard.

Gerard: For instance, when we were counting money in Zurich, you know, in the bank, it was go out in the city and find three clues. Well, I was like, well, that could be like two hours, you know? Like are you going to get on a subway train? Are you going to get on a bus? And then when we started to count this impossible humungous bowl of 1.6 billion coins, then they came running in in ten minutes, I’m like, okay, this is silly. We would have been there for four hours, and then these guys are finishing it in ten minutes. So it was an easy decision. A lot of them were easy decisions to make. I shouldn’t say a lot of them were easy. They’re always hard, because you’re doing it, and you’re like, are we just about there? Are we just about there? But, you know, you make a strategic decision, and, frankly, I think they all worked out.

Ken: I do, too. I feel that what people didn’t really understand was we weren’t given much in the way of a clue, number one. And number two, didn’t realize what sort of—what that had involved. Like we had no clue, like as far as—let’s talk about the digging in the sand. That would have hurt us. Oh, that was hell, for God’s sake. And I felt so bad for all those other people who had to do it two seasons later or one season later. But like everything we did—should we tell them what we did, Gerard? This is what we did in that one, how we changed Detours, and we looked for the clue, and then we did it all back again because of the etching?

Gerard: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we had got to the bike and it said it’s a four-speed or something. I’m like, I don’t know how to operate a four-speed. Little did I know—

Ken: Like there’s a difference.

Gerard: Something like there was a manual clutch or something. So then we went, oh, we’ll do the horses, do the digging, then came back to it again, ran the whole leg, which was probably almost 20 or 30 minutes—

Ken: 20 minutes, yeah.

Gerard: —and why did we have to go back and do it again?

Ken: Because we etched the stone for the café. It says, go to the café. We etched the stone, but we don’t think—of course, Bert is thinking ahead of us, like we have to figure this out, you know? Not us. We’re like, wait a minute. What does this say? Did we miss an etching? So we thought it said like—

Gerard: We thought there was a clue, I think, didn’t we?

Ken: Yeah. But once we etched it, we go, uh-oh. What does that mean? Like oh, there must have been more under it in English.

Gerard: So we went back again. We killed another half an hour and reran the whole leg again.

Ken: And that’s when we saw Flo and Zach heading out with their cab that we were able to take their cab.

Oh, so you all thought instead of just like the place where you were supposed to go, there was more information on there?

Ken: We thought there was.

Gerard: We thought we missed some things. So we came back—

Ken: Glacier or something.
We were like, where do we go? What do we do? And they’re all going, guys, it’s a Race. We usually don’t give you advice.
Gerard: We didn’t know what to do at the end of the task. Yeah. We were like, where do we go? What do we do? And they’re all going, guys, it’s a Race. We usually don’t give you advice.

Ken: They’re thinking, idiots.

Gerard: Yeah, total idiots.

Ken: We get back on the bike again. The cameraman is like, where are you going? And we’re like, well, we think there’s more of a clue. They’re like, okay. So they had to get onto their dirt bikes again, too. And Bert was sort of like—I know Bert was rolling his eyes all the time at us. And we never knew what we were doing.

Gerard: [Imitates Bert] “Ah, you two!” And then after Flo & Zach were there, after we had finished that, Flo is like, “Which one do we do?” And Ken is like, “I’m not going to tell you. I’m not going to say.” Well, it turned out that we said, “We’ll tell you, but it’s going to cost you.” So we said, “We want 30 bucks.” So Flo is like, “Fine.” And she yells to Zach, “Give them 30 bucks.” Well, poor Zach thinks he’s making a currency exchange.

Ken: He thought we were exchanging currency.

Gerard: So he gives us Euros, and I go, “Thanks, Zach.” And he goes, “Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!” And I said, “Talk to your partner,” and off we go. Well, he was absolutely stunned. I mean, we told them which one to do. We said, “Go ahead and do the etching. Don’t do the digging,” and gave them the right answer. So then back at the hotel, he was really upset about it. He was really upset. So we gave him back his money. I just wanted to see—

Ken: You gave him back his money?

Gerard: Ken, we gave him back his money.

Ken: Did you give it all back?

Gerard: Yeah. We gave him back his 30 bucks, yeah.

Ken: Did you do that to Damon & Andre when we said that he could be with us for money?

Gerard: No. I gave it—no, because they both agreed. I gave it back to Zach, because Zach was a nice guy, and Flo had made the unilateral decision. I just felt like I should give it back to him, so I gave it back to him.

Ken: We needed that money.

[Laughs] I don’t think Zach would ever voluntarily give away money on the Race.

Gerard: That’s not true. He’s a generous man.

Ken: I’m waiting for my dinner, but—

Gerard: Oh, yes, dinner.

Ken: No, but they all invested their money with us. They all invested their money, the top two teams, with Gerard. Gerard is the best financial man on the—

Gerard: Oh, look at you giving me a plug. Thank you, Ken.

Ken: I’ll give you the plug instead of getting you hair plugs. Anyway—

Gerard: I ended up winning the million after all. It just wasn’t in my name.

Ken: I got diddly, though.

Gerard: “I got diddly.” You sound like a spurned man.

Ken: We all keep in touch. We all watch the Race together usually here at my house.

Gerard: Flo & Zach, and Teri & Ian.

Ken: And John Vito & Jill.

Gerard: I just got invited, and Ken was, too, invited to Teri & Ian’s son’s bar mitzvah.

Ken: I wish I could go.

Gerard: Yeah, I wish we could, too. But raising the two sets of twins at home is a little stressful right now. But they’re very good people.
And I have to clean my closets.
Ken: And I have to clean my closets.


Gerard: You’re so bad.

Ken: I’m kidding!

Gerard: [Imitating Ian] Hoo-rah! Hoo-rah! Teri, hump it! Hump it, Teri!

Ken: Oh man, this is great.

So what did you think of last night’s episode? [The TAR7 premiere.]

Ken: We didn’t talk about it, Gerard. Did you?

Gerard: What episode? What was on? I’m kidding; I watched. No, we didn’t talk about it. Yeah, it was good. It was good. I enjoyed it. It will be interesting to see which teams we really start to like and really start to come to the forefront.

Ken: Yeah. They have a lot of gay people on. I’m happy about that. I’m also love the mother. You know, we haven’t seen a mom/son yet.

Gerard: That was kind of fun.

Ken: It will be interesting to watch.

Gerard: He had a great line about Rob and Amber last night.

Ken: Nice.

Gerard: Well, he did. It was funny.

Ken: I can’t remember. I don’t remember. There was so much happening that first episode. There’s always so much happening. There’s so many teams. That’s just the worst part of an opening, is that there’s so many teams to keep track of. And I like that they all seem like real people. And I’m damn excited for it. Hopefully they’ll get in touch with me if they’re eliminated and they can come and watch the episode at my house with Flo & Zach and Jill & John Vito.

So they’re doing all these casting calls now for Amazing Race 8: teams of four.

Gerard: Yes.

So maybe you could round up a few more siblings.

Ken: You’re laughing. We’ve had a couple people ask us, “Do you think they’ll mind?”

There’s eight in your family, you could have two teams right there.

Gerard: Yes, we could, and I’d love it. I don’t know if I’d be able to do it.

Ken: I couldn’t do it.

Gerard: Oh, God.

Ken: But Peggy and Fred want to do it, Gerard.

Gerard: And Glenn wants to do it.

Ken: Glenn and Sarah and Peter. Tommy. Jeanie doesn’t.

Gerard: I’m ready. Bring it on.

Ken: Bring it on! Let’s all go.

Gerard: We’ll have a team of 20. I don’t know how—

Ken: It’ll be disastrous, four people. Oh my God, I cannot—

Ken: I just think it’s going to be a nightmare. I mean, they’ll do a good job. They know what they’re doing. But I can’t imagine.

Yeah. I just don’t see how they’re going to pull it off. And then they lowered the age limit; you only have to be 8.

Gerard: Is that right? Did they lower it to 8?


Gerard: I knew it was 12.

Ken: Wow.

Gerard: Wow, that’s young. I hope it’s not—

Ken: How are they going to fit in the back seat of a cab, Gerard? You could barely fit in some of those cabs.

Gerard: You’re talking?

And it’s like, what can you do? What is the Race going to be? You take this ferris wheel? I mean, 8-year-olds, you can’t even get on a lot of the rides at an amusement park.

Gerard: Right.

Ken: The thing is, I guess, I trust what’s happening. You know? I don’t have an opinion yet. I really don’t. I don’t have a negative opinion about it. I think it’s interesting, and I think they need to do something to shake it up. But I do like the formula that’s been so wonderful and that’s worked. So it does make me a little nervous, but I guess I trust it. And, you know, to me it might be sort of a good idea. I feel that some of these Racers now, like they haven’t even seen some of the first few seasons. You know? It’s a whole new sort of generation of Racers, I think. They haven’t even seen it. So I don’t know. It’s going to be an interesting element. I’m looking forward to it, actually.

Yeah. Like you said, I can’t imagine how you get everyone into a cab, four team members plus the camera and the sound guy.

Gerard: Less cabs, or deluxe cabs. Maybe they’ll use less cabs, which I think would be a good part to the show anyway, you know, using less cabs. Using more mass transit. I think that makes for a more fun show.

Ken: They’ll figure it out. I don’t know. I just always felt it as such a—there are so many curse words flying around, I think, if I had an 8-year-old, I would—

Gerard: I can’t imagine it. I think there’s going to be so much paralysis sometimes when teams don’t know what do to. I mean, it’s tough enough when you have two people, but, if you have a dominant one—

Ken: Yeah.

Gerard: —like Kenny was in our Race. You know, if you have two dominant people, it will be almost impossible, it seems.

Ken: You know, there’s a part of me that thinks it’s sort of brilliant. Because there are going to be four different people trying to decide what they need to do. You know, I think that’s sort of interesting. And I think a lot of the story line is going to come up on this, like, oh God, this person is a little pushy. This person is timid; he needs to—and, finally, when the timid person—I just think there’s a lot going on.

Gerard: [Snores]

Ken: Gerard, wake up!

Gerard: [Snores]

Ken: It’s my casting, Beth. I’m sorry.

Gerard: It’s his casting. Would you, please?

Ken: All right. Let’s just talk numbers. Let’s talk financial stuff.

Gerard: What kind of numbers? Our weight? What do you need?

[Laughs] I actually went back this weekend and watched as many of the third season episodes as I could find on tapes. They’re dispersed all over, so I missed some of them.

Gerard: I’ll send you more. I have like 90 copies.

[Laughs] One of the things that kind of struck me, besides the fact that I fell in love with you guys all over again—

Ken & Gerard: Awww!

I was really struck by how John Vito & Jill seemed to keep away from the rest of the teams. They really seemed to stay out of the drama a lot. Was that just a perception on my part, or do you really think that they—? I mean, they were good about running their own race, or—

Gerard: That’s an interesting question.

Ken: Yeah. I mean, that’s true. I agree. There were a lot of times when they were on their own and doing their own thing, and we never knew what they were doing.

Gerard: Yeah. I think that’s true.

Ken: That happened a lot, where we were on the same train, and they wouldn’t sit with us. And it wasn’t because of—I don’t know what it was because of.

Gerard: Maybe they didn’t like you, Ken.

Ken: Maybe! No, they definitely ran their own Race, and they were running a good Race. So what they were doing was—maybe they just weren’t getting caught up in all the drama, I guess. I don’t really know.

Right. And I kind of noticed it, but, of course, it really struck out at me the episode at the waterfall, which happened to be the first one I watched, in which they ended up being separate from everyone and then on the other train and in another car on the train and everything. And that really, I think, kind of colored how I was looking at the episodes immediately after that, and maybe I just had that idea in my head.

Ken: Right. I think you were thinking in the right direction. I think they were very much on their own a lot of times. They were. They wanted to be on their own, I think, and do their own thing.

Yeah. I know that episode upset a lot of people in that we’d always heard there was this 20-foot rule, that contestants aren’t supposed to be more than 20 feet apart from each other.

Ken: You’ve done your research, Beth.

And it sure looked like they were more than 20 feet apart from each other at the waterfall.

Gerard: Yeah. We were annoyed at the time. We thought she should have gotten off the boat and she should have stayed with her partner. And then we would have gotten on our boat and—

Ken: And were actually told by production that we need to stay 20 feet away from our partner. But they never—

Gerard: They didn’t see it as an issue.

Ken: Yeah. Production didn’t see it as an issue. We were upset, but we were more upset about—was that the same episode, Gerard, where we ran to the finish line? Yeah, I think it was.

Gerard: I think it was. I think it was. Grundenwald.

Ken: Yeah. So we just wanted to make sure that the rules were being followed, that production was keeping an eye on that. And there’s so much grey stuff and they just sort of have to make a call. We didn’t necessarily—

Gerard: We think they’re very fair, in general. I’ll say that about them.

Ken: Yeah, they were. They were very fair about a lot of stuff.

I mean, it’s not like they can have you on a 20-foot tether.
We didn’t agree with some of the stuff. But, also, a lot of times at the end, we would have Screech sort of ask us, “Did anything happen? Were there any problems or concerns?”
Ken: Exactly. We didn’t agree with some of the stuff. But, also, a lot of times at the end, we would have Screech sort of ask us, “Did anything happen? Were there any problems or concerns?” But it was more like about we thought someone cheated or we thought somebody did something wrong. And we never complained. We didn’t really complain. Other people—I’d see Teri & Ian every pit stop with him. Uh-oh. They’re going to kill me for that.

Gerard: Ian’s going to call you tomorrow: “What are you saying?”

Ken: No. So it was like they were very open to the concerns of what was going on. But we always have a cameraman there and a third and fourth guy who really is unbiased. They’re producing and shooting and watching the story unfold. We’re just sort of like—we don’t know—like when we were in Hawaii, Gerard, remember the—we parked in the beginning of this farm.

Gerard: Oh, yeah.

Ken: The farm. We saw this gate. It looked closed. For some reason, we saw the flag there. So we just parked there. So we started running into this long thing. We kept following the—

Gerard: It was like a pineapple field or something.

Ken: This is to get to the—

Gerard: Waterfall.

Ken: The drop.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that zip line thing, yeah.

Ken: So we are running at full speed. And it had to be at least a mile. We were like—

Gerard: No. It was more than a mile. It’s definitely more. It was probably about two miles.

Ken: I think it was, yeah. But, after the first mile, we’re like, oh my God. This is weird. Like we just didn’t think it would be such a long run. Well, you know, we finally realized that—when we got all the way there, we’re putting it on—

Gerard: Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Ken: We were horrified that we just ran. We literally ran two miles. So at the very end, we’re putting on our equipment, and Flo & Zach come right up in their van, you know, right up in their car.

Gerard: “Hey, guys!”

Ken: And we’re like, holy shit, because what’s going to happen now is we knew that once this Detour is over, they’re right there to get their van. We have to go back another two miles, because production’s not bringing us our van. So we actually made a decision then, because we had left our sneakers there, Gerard. Remember?

Gerard: Yup.

Ken: We left our shoes where you put the clothes on. And then, after the drop, which is about a tenth of a mile away where we landed, we decided not to even go get our shoes. So we were running the two miles in those stupid—

Gerard: Sandals.

Ken: —those sandals that they gave us, the clogs for the jump. And then we’re like, huh-uh. But thank God we were so far ahead that we were okay that we could get back.

Gerard: So that’s why we ran to the finish line in sandals, because we didn’t have our shoes.

Ken: Exactly. We didn’t.

Yeah. I know a lot of people were wondering about that. They’re like, “Why is he running in sandals?”

Gerard: Because we left them at the zip line, because we had parked in that wrong spot. And it would have meant delaying us even more, and we didn’t feel like—

Ken: And thank God they didn’t say—from Hawaii, they didn’t say, “Oh, you must go up to Canada now. We would have been screwed.”

Gerard: Then they were nice to give us our sneakers after the Race was over.

Oh, that’s good.

Ken: Yeah. We were very happy about that.

So one kind of silly question that I know I have always wondered about. In Fussen, Germany, after you blew that tire and you guys were just so sure you were last getting in.

Gerard: Oh, yeah, yeah.

And you all were talking about going out—there were a lot of references to the von Trapp family as you were heading up towards that mat. Then you check in, and I swear it’s like—Ken, it’s like you were about to swirl and go into a chorus of “The Sound of Music.”

Gerard: [Laughs]

Ken: I really was. I was so excited. I really was because we were nervous. We didn’t really—I had a little bit of an idea that Damon & Andre were behind us. We were there for a good, what, Gerard, hour and 15 minutes—

Gerard: It was a long time. No, I think it was longer than that.

Ken: Yeah.

Gerard: And we got the flat and then found a station and then they had to tow us to another station—

Ken: To a Mercedes-Benz dealer, you know.

Gerard: We were there, yeah, probably over an hour.

Ken: So Gerard really—I mean, Gerard, you probably were pretty much out. Right?

Gerard: I was very nervous about it. As you get closer and closer, you just have this sickening feeling.

Ken: And what you didn’t actually see was we actually had the security behind us at this one point. Bob was behind us because—

Gerard: Bob was the head of security.

Ken: —because we obviously went way off course to this Mercedes-Benz dealer, like where are we going? So he happened to be behind us. And there were these beautiful mountains, and we had actually stopped . . .

Gerard: And we ran down—we were hoping they would have used the footage—but we ran down and did, up over the hill, “The hills are alive.”

Ken: Gerard was humping the camera, basically.
I said, “If Andre and Damon pass us while we’re running up over this hill, you’re a dead man.”
Gerard: We were sure were eliminated. We thought it would be a nice way to go out. “The hills are alive,” us coming over the mountain. Actually, Ken wanted to do this. I didn’t want to do it. I said, “If Andre and Damon pass us while we’re running up over this hill, you’re a dead man.”

Gerard: Ken says, “Oh, come on. It’ll take a minute.”

Ken: Don’t you dare believe that.

Gerard: That is what happened.

Ken: You are lying!

Gerard: “Gerard, we’re going to be eliminated. It’ll be a nice way to go out, do it to ‘The Sound of Music.’ It’ll be wonderful.”

Ken: Gerard is like going, “Roll ’em! Roll ’em!”

Gerard: I swear, I swear, I swear that was him.

Because we all thought you probably broke into a chorus of that, but they wouldn’t show it because—

Ken: I was so excited. I was so excited when we got in—well, we weren’t excited with the sleeping conditions. We all had to sleep in a dorm that night. We’re all in one big room. And I was snoring away and they were all pissed off at me. But we were thrilled.

Gerard: Oh, it was very exciting.

Because we were wondering if just the reason they—everyone thought, well, it looked like you were about to sing. And we thought, well, CBS was probably just too cheap to pay for the rights.

Ken: I don’t know. I didn’t sing. I really wasn’t going to sing. We were just like so excited, we were spinning around like Maria von Trapp.

Gerard: “We’re alive!”

Ken: It was cool.

Yeah. And I loved your calling Phil out on the, “Oh, come on! Just tell us!” on his dramatic pauses.

Ken: People don’t understand that Phil is—he’s such a joker. He really is. I mean, he was constantly joking with Gerard and me. So what you see was just—like by this point, that was really the one where we were like, oh my God, what’s happening? We just giggled, because we were so nervous. It was just so real. And that was the only real moment, because we were waiting for him to give us an eyebrow, to laugh before it, to say something. Nothing. He was blank. And it killed us. And we were just like, “Oh my God, just tell us, Phil!”

Gerard: It’s all coming back for you Ken. You’re not going to sleep tonight.

So you can send the therapy bill to me for bringing all this up. Right?

Gerard: Coming at you.

Well, listen, I’ve taken up so much of your time with doing this twice. So maybe we can wrap up a little bit with just kind of what have you guys been up to since the Race?

Gerard: Since the Race, back to my life. I have a boy and a girl 5-year-old set of twins, and I have a one-year-old set of twins.

Ken: [Snores]

Gerard: Now Kenny’s snoring. He’s anti-family. So, as you can imagine, my life is the kids right now. And I’m a financial advisor. I do that. You know, I work all day and then come home.

Ken: His kids are beautiful. And he works for A.G. Edwards. Gerard, you do good job.

Gerard: Well, thank you, Ken.

Ken: You’re welcome.

Gerard: Thank you. I do. We manage people’s money. So it’s good. It’s good. My life is very good and I’m very blessed.

I got to meet your wife at TARcon 5, was it?

Gerard: Oh, yes.

She’s very, very nice. A very lovely lady.

Gerard: Oh, well, thank you.

It was fun just watching the look on her face as everyone was coming up to you.

Gerard: Yeah, it was funny.

Ken: I think she was horrified.

Gerard: She was over it about a week before the season actually started. She’s been very supportive. She’s great.

Ken: And me, I’m still casting. I’m an independent contractor, so I’m doing that a lot. I’m actually looking for some full-time casting work or else something in some sort of related field, or even unrelated field. So if anyone knows of a job, please give me a call.

Gerard: This is not a help wanted ad.

Ken: Go to the website.

Gerard: Interview for TAR3—it’s not help wanted.


Ken: Please, please. Your mouth to God’s ear. We still have a website that’s going, but Gerard’s never paid one cent into it. But anyway—

Gerard: I paid for the address! I paid for the address! What do you mean?


Gerard: Ken gets his friends to work pro bono. That’s his contribution. And I actually pay for the fee to keep the address.

Ken: He’s lying again.
Kenny, stop calling me a liar. This is what you did to Derek & Drew. It’s not nice.
Gerard: Kenny, stop calling me a liar. This is what you did to Derek & Drew. It’s not nice.

Ken: There you go.

Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.

Gerard: We’ll talk any time.

Ken: You call us any time.

Gerard: We can talk about the Race any time.

Ken: And all the seasons after it. And we’re constantly watching, so we love talking about it. Everyone else is sort of sick of hearing us, so—

Gerard: Just call us without the recorder, even if you just want to chat about it. We’ll do a conference call.

Ken: I’ll give you some real dirt, some real dirt.

Gerard: Yes, once you turn the tape off. Thanks for taking the time with us, Beth.

Ken: Yeah, thank you so much.

Thank you guys. And good luck, and, hopefully, we’ll see you around May.

Ken: TARcon. Oh definitely, yes. I’m going to be there. Gerard hopes—

Gerard: I should be there, too.

Ken: I mean, I already met Rob & Amber. They seem very nice, so I like them.

What do you think about this cross-pollination thing, like their coming on to The Amazing Race, and like Allison and—

Ken: You know, call me shallow, but I met them in Cincinnati or somewhere a couple times, and they were actually very nice to me. So I’m shallow. If they had been rude, I’d be like, oh, I hate them. How dare they? But they were very nice to me, so I like them. And I thought they were very interesting on Survivor. Gerard, did you watch Survivor?

Gerard: Yeah, I watch Survivor. And I thought it was neat having the serviceman there as well, the former Iraqi—

Ken: Who was almost killed. I was nervous for him. Prisoner of war . . .

Gerard: Yeah. It was a close call last night. But that’s kind of neat. And then everyone else seems like very uncast, the teams, like no models and things like that, it seems. So I think it’s going to be fun.

Ken: I’m excited. I think it’s going to be a great season.

Gerard: We’re looking forward to it.

Me too! Well, thank you guys and take care.